World elders - World religion

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We know from the many clear warnings of Christ's true saints, that a false church will arise and be integrated into the world religion of Antichrist. It follows therefore, that along with it's buildings, icons and clergy this false church must also have it's saints, prophets, miracle workers and teachers. Their sanctity however must be a fraud, their prophecies misguided, their miracles illusions and their teachings demonic. The spiritual life as taught by the Holy Fathers has been called a science of sciences, a repeatable experiment that every Christian must conduct within themselves, and so this teaching should be consistent no matter what time or place those ascetics struggled and recorded their experiences and wisdom. In the words of Saint Theophan the Recluse:

'The positive teaching of the Church serves to know whether a concept is from the Truth. This is a litmus test for all teachings. Whatever agrees with it, you should accept it, whatever does not - reject. One can do it without further deliberations.'

The cult of the Athonite 'elders' is inescapable for those caught in the fallen church. They have become the standard of holiness and most trusted teachers of the modern Orthodox Christian. Porphyrios, Paisios and Iakovos are the three big ones, although there are others whose names I forget. As the world orthodox churches draw nearer to ecumenical unity with the heterodox, and ultimately, every non-christian religion, the spiritual life of the people must first be adapted so as to complement, or at least not contradict, the spirituality of the emerging unified religion that is the inevitable outcome. It is my contention that the elders of world orthodoxy have made significant changes to the understanding of the nature of man and the spiritual life of the Christian, and that these changes are in line with what we would expect if they were indeed preparing those people for the acceptance of the world religion.

Here I will contrast some of the teachings of Porphyrios on the nature, effect and power of thoughts with similar doctrines found in New Age religion followed by the true understanding handed down by authentic Holy Fathers.

First, a quote from Porphyrios taken from the book - Wounded by love: The Life and Wisdom of Elder Porphyrios (Found at The Orthodox Christian Information Center.)

'When we speak evil about someone, an evil power proceeds from within us and is transmitted to the other person, just as the voice is transmitted on sound waves, and in point of fact the other person suffers evil. It is something like the bewitchment of the evil eye, when someone has evil thoughts about others. This occurs through our own indignation. We transmit our evil in a mystical way. It is not God who provokes evil, but rather people’s wickedness. God does not punish, but our own evil disposition is transmitted to the soul of the other in a mysterious way and does evil.'

So, according to Porphyrios 'an evil power proceeds from within us and is transmitted to the other person, just as the voice is transmitted on sound waves.' 'We transmit our evil in a mystical way.'

First I want to point out that Porphyrios is not just describing the effect of speech, he is describing a separate power, something distinct from the person speaking and the person suffering the evil. From where does this power come? From within us, he says. He does not say we rouse the other persons passions, by expressing our malice, he claims that something else is transmitted mysteriously, like sound is through air, reaches the other person's soul and 'does evil.'

Now a quote from Khris Krepcik, who calls himself The Hooded Sage, a disciple of Stuart Wilde, one of the most famous and influential New Age gurus, describing what occurs between people through what he calls the 'Mental Fields.'

'On a multidimensional level, humans are nothing but etheric tubes of flowing energy. When humans come in contact with each other, those etheric tubes latch on to other people, and energy is transferred from one person to another.'

'People are constantly bombarded by the dark resonances of emotion and mind that are flying through the invisible holographic fields.'

'...any negative attitude or inner feeling towards another human being is the exact same thing as black magic on an energy level... Anger, anxiety, desire, disdain, envy, fear, greed, hatred, jealousy, lust, panic, rage, sadness, worry — any of it — they all create and project etheric blocks, binds, darkness, hits, and sickness onto others...'

With a more specific terminology, Khris Krepcik is describing exactly the same thing as Porphyrios: Negative feelings projected from within people are transmitted via the etheric, holographic fields and effect those around them.

Now, you might say, in Porphyrios' defense, that he mentions speech. Maybe he just means the negativity we speak that other people hear? But he specifically says this transmission is like sound through the air, so it must be distinct from speech. And in another quote he confirms his belief in energy transference by thought when he claims:

'There is an invisible life, the life of the soul. This is very powerful and can have effect on the other, even if we are miles apart. This also happens with the curse, which is a power that works evil. But if, conversely, we pray with love for someone, whatever the distance that separates us, the good is transmitted. So distances do not affect the power of good and evil. We can transmit these across boundless distances. Solomon the Wise says this very thing: ‘The noise of murmurings shall not be hidden.’ The noise of our soul is transmitted mysteriously and affects the other, even if we don’t say a word. Even without speaking we can transmit good or evil, irrespective of the distance which separates us from our neighbor. What is not expressed generally has greater power than words.'

There can be no doubt that the spiritual reality that Porphyrios describes is the same reality that The Hooded Sage, Khris Krepcik describes. We can only assume that both of these 'spiritual guides' were engaging in similar spiritual practices, encountering the same unseen reality, taking it to be the true understanding of how the spiritual realm works, and passing this teaching on to their students as the genuine way of spiritual life.

So let's contrast this with what the Holy Fathers taught about the nature of thoughts and their power. From St John Damascene's, 'Exact exposition of the Orthodox faith' Book II Chapter XIX

Concerning Thought 

'The faculty of thought deals with judgments and assents, and impulse to action and disinclinations, and escapes from action: and more especially with thoughts connected with what is thinkable, and the virtues and the different branches of learning, and the theories of the arts and matters of counsel and choice. Further, it is this faculty which prophesies the future to us in dreams, and this is what the Pythagoreans, adopting the Hebrew view, hold to be the one true form of prophecy. The organ of thought then is the mid-ventricle of the brain, and the vital spirit it contains.'

Nothing about a mysterious power to project good or evil remotely.

Now Saint Maximus the Confessor, a giant of ascetical theology, whose teachings on the nature of thoughts and their effects are an Orthodox standard.

'If we detect any trace of hatred in our hearts against any man whatsoever for committing any fault, we are utterly estranged from love for God, since love for God absolutely precludes us from hating any man.'

'Stop defiling your flesh with shameful deeds and polluting your soul with wicked thoughts; then the peace of God will descend upon you and bring you love.'

'Do not befoul your intellect by clinging to thoughts filled with anger and sensual desire. Otherwise you will lose your capacity for pure prayer and fall victim to the demon of listlessness.'

'When the intellect associates with evil and sordid thoughts it loses its intimate communion with God.'

In the writings of Saint Maximus we find the true doctrine of the power of a person's thoughts. They only have the power to affect the one who thinks them. If we consent to impassioned thought, and carry out in deed the malice we feel, either by word or deed, then we harm the other person. Otherwise, the result of malice or hatred in the soul only has the effect of cutting that person off from God's grace.

For a man supposedly in possession of great discernment and the gifts of seeing into the soul of those who came to him for help, Porphyrios was clearly not able to discern the true nature of the human soul or the spiritual world. If he had been possessed of the same Holy Spirit that had illumined Holy Fathers like Saint Maximus, he would have understood the soul's nature in the same way as they understood it.

Of course, the True Orthodox understanding is the only doctrine that makes sense anyway. What kind of world would we be forced to inhabit if everything we thought and felt was transmitted to our environment? It would not be possible to conduct a spiritual struggle in the way the Fathers describe, by working back from deeds and words to dealing with impassioned thinking. It would not seem fair for God to not allow us to choose between the thoughts we accept and those we reject in order to change the way we interact with people and the world. We would have no choice but to do constant harm, even involuntarily, especially at the beginning of our struggle when such impassioned thoughts are powerful and difficult to control.

If it is possible to transfer energy by thought, why are the lives of the saints not full of accounts of these powers? Why did Christ and the Apostles not mention them? Why do we not find the sin of thought transference in the guides to confession?

Because it doesn't exist and has never been a natural power of man. God did not create us telepathic, and there is no separate, impersonal force that can be projected from person to person in a mysterious way without the cooperation of the demonic realm by a deceptive appearance. In fact, the elders of world orthodoxy very rarely mention demons at all, and why would they? Who needs demons, angels or even God himself if men are able to generate and project mysterious powers, sharing good and evil without the benefit of grace or even speech?

This is the crux of the emerging spirituality. Everything is centered on man, God is distant and uninvolved, impersonal forces dominate the mind and soul, and 2000 years of Holy Wisdom is superseded by a handful of old men, in direct contact with fallen spirits, promoted as elders and guides by a church deep in apostasy.

Conversations Between St. John of Kronstadt and Abbess Thaisia - parts 1 - 2

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I

Having had the good fortune to enjoy the most intimate spiritual relationship with the unforgettable late Father John Sergiev (of Kronstadt), I often conversed with him, at times quite at length, on subjects of a spiritual and exalted nature. Taking advantage of these opportunities, I endeavored to question him in regard to my difficult spiritual and monastic life; and pondering in my heart all the answers of the good Father, I would seclude myself in my cell and write down what he said to me, striving to remember his every word. From these notes a whole book was compiled. During the last years of Father John's life (I don't exactly remember when), I once mentioned these writings to him, and he expressed a desire to check these notes for himself. He found them accurate, made several corrections, where with his own hands he inserted additions, and then said to me: 'It is good that you are noting down my words. The Apostle says: Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances as I delivered them to you (1 Cor. 11:2). This means that the seed fell on good ground, and will bring forth fruit, potent to feed others as well.' Here are these notes, beginning in 1891, i.e. , the first year that Father John began to visit his native territory, the village of Sura, with the purpose of building a stone parish church in it.

II

When Father John was returning by ship from his native territory, and had entered the river Sheksna in order to follow it to the city of Rybinsk, he was being awaited in Cherepoutz by Mr. L., who had invited the good Father to visit and had chartered a large passenger ship for him. On the eve of that day, July 17th, I had come to Cherepoutz on monastery business, but I knew nothing about the proposed visit of Father John. I learned of his arrival by evening, and the next morning, after discovering that he had already arrived and was staying at the house of the cathedral parish president and business-man Mr. Krokhin, I immediately went to his house, forced my way through the large crowd of people that had gathered there, and began to plead with Father John to come and visit our monastery, which was located on the shore of the river Sheksna. Batiushka Father John excused himself from coming for fear that he would hold up the ship, since it was only chartered to get him, and not for his personal use. To this he added: 'If you want to talk, it would be nice if you would come with me on the ship. Then we can talk.' In this way we set off. Then, having beforehand obtained a permit from the owner of the ship, I again began to plead with Father John to come and visit our monastery. He agreed. Our ship stopped at our monastery dock, 'Borki,' and we came ashore and went in a carriage to the monastery.

The first words Father John said, turning to me were:

Father John: 'Why did you ask me so vehemently to visit your monastery? We met and had a talk - isn't that enough?'

Abbess Thaisia: 'Batiushka, I'm asking you to come because I had a chance to talk to you and see you with my own eyes. Having received this happiness, I want my sisters also to be as fortunate. If I don't use all means available to me to do this, then it will be on my conscience; but if I do everything on my part, and you still refuse, then I will not be answerable to God.'

Father John: 'Ah - so that's why! That's why we're going to the monastery.'

On our way we began a conversation.

Abbess Thaisia: 'I was hoping to open my whole soul to you, Batiushka. I have always wanted to do this so that you could see it as an external thing, and would thus be able to show me what is needful for it. This is the aim of my talk with you. Often we don't know ourselves, we condescend to our weaknesses. Besides, I see that you are a man endowed with grace; you see by the Holy Spirit which abides in you.'

Father John: 'Pastors are given a special grace for the work of saving the souls entrusted to us. This grace informs our knowledge to the degree necessary.'

Abbess Thaisia: 'Yes, Batiushka, but not all pastors are given an equal amount. I think it is given to the measure of one's personal ability to receive it. You are especially endowed with The Holy Spirit, and through this you talk to people. I've been noticing this for quite some time now.'

Father John: 'If you have been noticing and you understand the spirituality in a person, then there is no reason to doubt that one needs faith. It is the enemy who disturbs our souls with doubt and unbelief, in order to deprive us of peace.'

Abbess Thaisia: 'You, Batiushka, have the chance to see many people, to hear their various needs, sins, necessities, and everything that people open up to you.'

Father John: 'Yes, my dear, I'm forced to hear many confessions from many people.' (Batiushka sighed heavily.)

Abbess Thaisia: 'Does it get hard at times, Batiushka?'

Father John: It's not easy, but that is precisely what the commandment means: We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak (Rom. 15:1). This not an easy commandment, and it refers mostly to pastors.

Abbess Thaisia: 'Do you get a chance to meet holy souls, perfect ones?'

Father John: 'Our perfection is there,' (Pointing to the sky) 'and one only is holy, our Lord Jesus Christ.'

Abbess Thaisia: 'Batiushka, as long as a man is in the flesh, he cannot be freed from passions, temptations and pitfalls. These surround him all over the world.'

Father John: 'Of course he's not free, that is precisely why it is necessary to attend to ourselves deeply and persistently. In a moment of temptation a man is, as it were, placed on the scales -which side will overcome him? The enemy pulls him into perdition, while an angel and his conscience are holding him back. At this time it is necessary to arm oneself with the fear of hellish suffering. It is also necessary to add to this secret prayer of the heart, because without the help of God we are not strong enough to fight with temptations.'

Abbess Thaisia: 'When a man pays heed to himself, then even the smallest deviation from God, be it voluntary or involuntary, wieghs down the soul and disrupts its peaceful state. (I am, of course, speaking from experience.) With he loss of peace there arises turmoil, disturbance, and frustration. Oh, how hard it is sometimes for the soul, and how hard it is for it to return to its peaceful state!'

Father John: 'At that time it is imperative to have immediate secret repentance: He will call unto me and I shall hear him (Ps. 90:15). The Lord knows our weaknesses. He is ready to forgive us everything, if we repent and ask forgiveness. It is imperative not to become hard-hardheartedrted, i.e., not to hesitate on the thought of committedited, but to repent immediately, remembering the mercy of God. Then there will be born not turmoil or distraction, but contrition of heart and humility, which God will not despise (Ps. 50:17)

Abbess Thaisia: 'How does one preserve the soul's peace with God, which was restored to it through the sacraments, secret repentance, or Gods mercy?'

Father John: 'Nothing preserves peace, which consists of contact with God, as much as paying heed to oneself. In general, a man who is conducting a spiritual life and has zeal for salvation must tirelessly pay heed to himself; that is, must notice all the movements of his heart and mind. He is carefully watched by the enemy, who wants to catch him - when he finds a loophole, i.e., a moment not covered by the attention of the householder, he immediately rushes in and operates like the householder of a man's soul, and can do quite a lot of harm.'

Abbess Thaisia: 'How hard is the feeling within oneself when, having become purified and having restored it's union with God, the soul again breaks that union!'

Father John: 'On a clean and white surface, even the smallest spot is evident; we can likewise apply this to the soul. But on a black and dirty surface, it is unnoticeable because of the overall darkness and filth. And so it comes out that it is necessary to pay heed to oneself and have unceasing remembrance of God and inward prayer.'

Abbess Thaisia: 'Yes, Batiushka, one comes to the conviction that it is hard for a man who is placed by life amidst tumult, even if he is innocent - as, for example, one who is in charge of others but strives to have inward attention - to keep himself on this path.'

Father John: 'Yes, it is hard, but what good deed is acquired without labor? After all, looking at it from another point of view, isn't our salvation in labor, isn't the kingdom of God taken by violence? And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force. (Matt. 11:12) That is, forcing oneself by strength, by striving to fight, and only the most zealous seekers achieve it. Prayer is needed here.'

Abbess Thaisia: 'Father, teach me to pray.'

Father John: 'To pray is the simplest, and at the same time the hardest, thing to do. A child can pray in it's own way; it asks it's father and mother for what it wants. We are children of the Heavenly Father. Why must we go out of our way to ask our Father? Just as you feel you must tell Him your needs, in the same way open your heart. The Lord is nigh unto all them that call upon Him, to all that call upon Him in truth... and their supplication shall He hear. (Ps. 144: 19,20). And again I tell you, I will come (II Sam. 17:2). Oh, how great is God's mercy towards us! But at the same time be wise and careful; preserve your mind from being scattered and wandering, and from vanity.'

Abbess Thaisia: 'Sometimes Batiushka, I actually pray with my whole being, as if standing before the face of God himself. My whole being then disappears, and my prayer becomes sweet and fervent. That doesn't happen often, though; I don't allow myself such a state at times, for fear of the enemy, lest he platter by such prayer, as I am still inexperienced and incapable of enduring it's heights. This is the work of those more successful in spiritual life than myself. I, of course, have read all the ascetic books which warn against practicing contemplative prayer - especially beginners, such as myself - and warn that if one does strive for it at an early time, it is necessary to do so with extreme caution, as an exalted gift from God.

Father John: 'That is exactly what I am telling you: be wise and careful. However, it is not wise to avoid contemplative prayer. Such prayer is a visitation of God's grace. One must persistently and intently ask for it and treasure it, but not avoid it for any reason. The enemy hates such prayer; and that is why he tries to frighten and deceive you. This prayer gives peace to the soul, it settles silence and quietness in it.'

Abbess Thaisia: 'Since becoming an abbess, I don't pray much Batiushka. During the day I get exhausted from my daily work and cares, and I can barely crawl to my pillow at night. Before I can even get up in the morning, all the cares rise up again. The moment I open the door, I am overwhelmed; I can hardly return to prayer.'

Father John: 'Salvation and prayer don't consist in many words, but in understanding and warmth of heart. The most important thing to remember during the day is to have constant thought of God, that is, to have secret inward prayer. I myself don't have time to stand through long monastic services, but everywhere I go, whether I walk, am driven, ride, sit or lie, the thought of God never abandons me. I beheld the Lord ever before me that I might not be shaken (Ps. 15:18). The thought of His closeness never abandons me. You, too, must strive to do the same.'

Abbess Thaisia: 'Batiushka, do you sense Him close to you?'

Father John: 'Yes, my dear, as one close, very close to me. He is always with me, according to His word: I will dwell in them... and I will be their God (II Cor. 6:16). Otherwise, how would I act the whole day, if it were not for the grace of God?

Abbess Thaisia: 'Yes Batiushka, you certainly are laboring remarkably! You are offering yourself as a sacrifice to the people, completely forgetting about yourself.'

Father John: 'Well, perhaps that's a little too much. Actually, I strive according to my strength, with God's help, for the salvation of men. I have been preparing myself for this since my ordination to the priesthood. Pastors, who are the successors of the Apostles, must live for their flock, and not for themselves: Ye are the salt of the Earth, but if the salt has lost it's savor, wherewith shall it be salted? (Matt. 3:13)

Abbess Thaisia: 'I know Batiushka, that you have served as a priest for quite some time now. Why have you now become so conspicuous?'

Father John: 'That was the time of preparation. How is it possible to come out to fight if one hasn't prepared oneself and acquired experience?'

Abbess Thaisia: 'Yes Batiushka, it has not been easy for you, but now you stand higher than all temptations and passions. Any that approach you will be crushed against the rock of faith and grace that is within you.'

Father John crossed himself and said with a sigh:

Father John: 'That's a lot to say - higher than all temptations and passions? I'm not passionless. But God's grace - and His grace which was bestowed on me was not in vain (i Cor 15:10) - has always strengthened me and encouraged me. What we have is nothing but weaknesses and sins; our capability in serving is from God.'

Abbess Thaisia: 'You have great faith, Batiushka, which I seem to lack. Share some with me.'

Father John smiled and said:

Father John: 'Take as much as you want, as much as you can carry. The Lord is rich in mercies.'

Abbess Thaisia: 'You're joking, Batiushka, but I often waver. Not in faith in God, of course. Oh no, I believe in him firmly and undoubtingly. i will give you an example: How can I hope for salvation on the path I have chosen? Was it from God, or my own initiative? And what about all my dreams, which you know about? And there are many other matters I want verified in a more spiritual way, full of grace and hope.'

Father John: 'It is futile to be disturbed about that. Your first vision of the Savior occurred when you were still a child. What kind of prelest would that be? He called you by this means to serve Him, and gave you a testament for your salvation.'

Abbess Thaisia: 'At the end of the vision he told me: 'First you must labor.' And so I labor with all my strength - but am I doing it in a way that is pleasing to Him? Will He accept my labors, are they pleasing to Him? I cannot be sure, for after all, 'God's judgment is different.''

Father John: 'How will He not accept them when He has already crowned them with success? Look what a cathedral you have erected in such a short time, without any means. Didn't the Lord crown your labors with such success? For your monastery and your virgin sisters whom you are guiding to salvation, the Lord will reward you a hundredfold, for He is just and merciful.'

Abbess Thaisia: 'But all this is external, my dear Batiushka. So I built a cathedral with donations that other people obtained from other people's hands. For this everyone praises me. This is an external reward for external things. What about my soul? What have I acquired during the course of my many years in the monastery?'

Father John: 'You say that you haven't acquired anything for your soul? This will be judged by God, Who is the knower of hearts. As long as we are on the Earth, Thaisia, the soul is inseparably bound with external things, and the labors, although of a material nature, are undertaken for the Lord and His Glory. Indisputably these are accepted by Him. You say that it was built by other peoples donations. Ha! It is much easier to build with one's own money, than by that acquired by the difficult, tedious collection of these donations. You say that they praise you for building the cathedral. How can one avoid praising such a deed? After all, from here to the end of the world the name of God is glorified by thousands of lips. Your memory, as the builder of the church, will not be forgotten by the Church.

Abbess Thaisia: 'Now, because of these building cares, combined with the general abbatical worries and labors, I have no prayer, no fasting, no monastic activity.'

Father John: 'Your labors are not for your soul alone, but for the general good. That is why they are great, greater than if they were just for yourself. As for fasting, you are lying about yourself. Your food is poor and simple. To completely avoid this is impossible for one who labors.'

Abbess Thaisia: 'And what of the sins connected with the abbatical position?'

Father John: 'And what of the lamb of God, Who took away the sin of the world? Ask from God faith and hope: Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, and be sober, and hope till the end for the grace that is to brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ (I Peter 1:13), says the Apostle Peter.'

Abbess Thaisia: 'Pray for me, Batiushka, that through your powerful prayers the Lord will help me.'

Father John: 'I am praying, and will keep praying. You must pray for me also; your prayer has boldness.'

Abbess Thaisia: 'What is my prayer? I pray for you, my Batiushka, on the one hand, because I like to pray for you. But on the other hand, it is shameful and frightful for me to pray for you before God, for who am I compared to you?'

Father John: 'Why, Thaisia, it's not right for you to exalt me like that! I am the first of sinners. the Apostle himself asks the faithful to pray for him: Brethren, pray for us (I Thes. 5:25). And the other Apostle writes: Pray one for another (Jas. 5:16). It is easier to pray for those who pray for us.'

Abbess Thaisia: 'I wrote to you once, Batiushka, asking you to pray for my healing from a sickness, and I received a little alleviation, but not complete healing.'

Father John: 'That means there was no need of it. Don't seek to escape sickness; one must be sick for a while and endure. Everything is good for you, for your salvation.'

Part 3 soon...

The Catacomb Church

An interview with Alexander Andreevich Chernov

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A Russian Emigre in Bulgaria before the Second World War, with a degree in theology and philosophy from the University of Sofia, A. A. Chernov was arrested by the invading Soviet armies during the War for his anti-soviet political activities and spent 35 years in the USSR, 15 of them in prison camps and 20 literally 'underground,' before being allowed to leave the country quite recently. In his 20 years of 'freedom' he was in close contact with the Catacomb Church of Russia, and his information on it given in this interview is the most recent we have from an actual member of this Church.

Question: How did you enter the Catacomb Church?

Answer: I became acquainted with the representatives of this Church in the camp in the 1940's. They were in prison for their faith, but it was according to the same article 58 (*of the Soviet Constitution: for 'anti-Soviet activities.') With their help, when I left the camp (in 1955) I was already able to get into contact with the Catacomb Church, and I went underground. If I had not done this they would not have left me I peace, but as it is for twenty years I was able to do something.

At the time I entered the Catacomb Church, my conception of life in the Soviet Union was totally non-existent. After all, I had never been outside of prison in the Soviet Union, and I had no idea what life was like there. In the Catacomb Church I was completely hidden, and I lived literally within four walls. I was never under the open sky, and the sun never shone on me. I learned about life outside gradually, from the accounts of others, and during the times I was being transferred to new places. I often had to be transferred: with the least suspicion of danger to me I was immediately transferred a great distance away, as a rule, from one republic to another, some thousands of kilometers from my previous hiding place. I was very much protected because of my theological education, since such people in the Catacomb Church have always been and are in short supply.

Question: Tell us please, a few words about how the Catacomb Church arose.

Answer: The Catacomb Church appeared together with the Soviet regime, when the first priests and bishops were executed without trial, when they began to destroy the churches, when Christians began to give refuge to those who were being sought by the persecutors. Patriarch Tikhon understood that the majority of the bishops were threatened by death; after all, where could one hide metropolitans, archbishops and bishops who were known to everyone? Therefore, recognizing that the Church could no longer remain entirely open, Patriarch Tikhon at almost every service ordained bishops, even in small cities. It is considered that under him there were ordained about one thousand bishops; (Ed note: This figure seems high, even if it were to include all the bishops ordained in the 1920's and 1930's. Probably not many more than 300 bishops are known to us by name from this period, although, of course, we have almost no information whatever about the secret ordinations of this period.) they could lose themselves in the midst of the people and place a beginning for the Catacomb Church. When the official Church began openly to cooperate with the communists (in 1927,) then for the Catacomb Church there was no longer any possibility of communion with her.

Question: How is the Catacomb Church organized?

Answer: It is easier to imagine this in graph form: there is a large circumference and it's center. The circumference is the immense multitude of points or cells of the Church. Between these cells there is no contact, but they all have a connection of ideas with the 'center,' in some form or other.

Question: It is interesting that this is similar to the structure of the NTS (political party) in the country: the same cells, although he center is abroad. This kind of organizational system of underground organizations in a totalitarian land we call 'molecular,' founded on the spontaneous arising of points of opposition in the country.

Answer: Probably this happens somehow by itself, if one decides to act in the underground. Cells in the Catacomb Church are also formed without any kind of initiative from the center. A man simply comes to the conclusion that the official Church is not the Church. It is created by the Party, penetrated by the KGB. He begins to pray at home. Thus a 'house church' arises, just as in Apostolic times when the Church of Christ was persecuted. The Holy Apostle Paul in his epistles writes just these words: 'the house church' (Rom. 16:5). The whole Catacomb Church is precisely an immense multitude of 'house churches.' Each of them is most concerned with how to be secret and unnoticed.

This whole mass of cells lives a varied life: there are those who are just beginning, but there are also real monastery sketes where the services go on ceaselessly the whole day long from year to year. I was able to be in some real underground churches. Sometimes such churches are built in caves. There are some groups in which the members of the Catacomb Church lead a most ascetic way of life, and the regime itself, when it uncovers them from time to time, is astonished by the way these people live.

In the Catacomb Church there are strict rules of security. In short, this is a large underground organization which has been acting in the USSR for sixty years already. Of course, one cannot speak about it as some kind of unchanging organization, always the same. Everything changes with the course of time. Gradually it's membership changes, and it's rules change also – they become all the time more drastic. The Catacomb Church strives outwardly not to manifest itself at all, to preserve itself; therefore it is not so easy to find it, and in the west, I think, very little is known about it. In any case it is a large group of people into which the regime is not able to penetrate. But attempts are made to do this. Knowing about the lack of priests in the Catacomb Church, the regime tries to send to us it's agents under the appearance of priests. Far example, there have been cases where such ones have tried to pass themselves off for people who ave received the priesthood from Metropolitan Philaret of New York.

But despite the lack of priests, the Catacomb Church is not dying out, as Father Dimitry Dudko thinks. (*Ed note: In a letter published earlier this year is Possev, Fr Dimitry wrote, not that the Catacomb Church is 'dying out,' but more simply that it has too few clergy to take care of the needs of the Orthodox population of Russia.) The skeleton of it remains the same – and knowing the history of the ecumenical Church, one should not underestimate this. When the priests did not hold their ground, then it was monasticism that preserved the truth. Let us hope in God. All our hope is only in God. My strength is made perfect in weakness (2 Cor. 12:9). In the Catacomb Church is the remnant of Holy Russia, which, despite all it's attempts, the Soviet God-fighting regime has not been able to annihilate up to this time.

We know that the boundaries of the Church do not correspond to the boundaries of the state. And therefore, the Catacomb Church looks with hope and expectation upon the Russian Church Outside of Russia. When we hear a voice that says perhaps there are no longer any bishops in our Church here, we reply: Well, we have a 'gold reserve' of them there, outside of Russia.

Question: But still, is there any contact between these cells that gives anyone the right to speak of the existence in the USSR of a Catacomb Church as a certain unity?

Answer: Yes, without doubt. First of all, they are all united by the acceptance and evaluation of our times as the 'last times.' The USSR is a spiritual phenomena of these last times, which is revealing itself in a totalitarian fight against God. It is entirely understandable that the USSR has created it's own 'Church' also, in the image and likeness of itself. The Soviet kind of 'Church' serves only for deception and not for the satisfaction of the religious seekings of the people. When the regime finds it necessary, this Church will cease it's existence.

Question: However, most recently, there have been changes in this Church. And there are such worthy people there as Father Dimitry Dudko and tens of others.

Answer: The existence in the Soviet Church of Father Dimitry Dudko and certain ones like him is not an apology for it. The Soviet Church has not changed in it's essence and it remains the creature of the Soviet regime. The Catacomb Church does not recognize either the Soviet regime or it's Church. These are precisely the two basic conditions that brought about the Catacomb Church.

Question: What in your opinion is the number of members of the Catacomb Church?

Answer: No one knows precisely, but I suppose that there are millions. I will give you figures from the secret report of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the USSR. E.N. Klimov, who is responsible for checking the atheistic activities of priests. (Yes, that's not a mistake: the atheistic activities of priests!) About six years ago at one of it's secret reports for teachers (entrance was only by a special ass), he cited two figures: 52 million parishioners in the official Church, and 48 million in the Catacomb Church. How these figures were obtained, and what is meant here by the Catacomb Church, and whether the regime includes here various sects also – I cannot say. However, I consider that to divide parishioners thus into the Catacomb Church and the official Church is not entirely correct. I know of one Moscow engineer, for example, who goes to services of the official Church but does not receive communion, and when during the petitions they pray for the government, he reads his own petitions for the opposite. In real life the Catacomb and official Churches overlap each other, and it is impossible to make a boundary between them.

The most extreme section of the Catacomb Church is the True Orthodox Christians (TOC). They received me entirely as one of their own, since I had no kind of relations with the regime and did not even have a single workers ticket. But they will not accept any kind of Communist in their group. For me, this limitation – membership in the Party – should not be disqualification. If one does not accept Communists, that means one only strengthens them in their own way and drives them away. Father Vlassy a Catacomb Schema-hieromonk, now reposed related how through one spiritual son of his a highly-placed Party member appealed to him and asked him to come to give hi communion, and he even sent his own car at night for him. In the house of this man there were splendid ancient icons and an icon lamp. And this Party member said: 'I entreat you, judge for yourself: if it is essential that I leave the Party, I will leave the Party tomorrow. I know what this will mean for me. But if it is possible – then leave everything the way it is, because in soul I am absolutely not a Communist.'

Question: Tell us, please, a few words about your last arrest in Kiev (in 1975).

Answer: In a few words, I was arrested for religious samizdat publications. They found nothing on me, since I was arrested on the train, but they found at the house of P.P. Savitsky one of my religious-historical works. At the interrogation I said the following: 'Here you have the essence of my crime. There is a law, and judge me according to this law, but I will speak only about myself and not about anyone else.' And so they were not able to get anything from me, and I was again sent to camp.

If one were top compare the Soviet camps in the 50's and the 70's I felt better in the former – and not only because I was younger then. For foreigners the conditions in camp are better than usual; but Russians are plagued the whole day long with loudspeakers: from morning till night, from day to day, one and the same Soviet songs. This wears one out a great deal, since there is nowhere one can escape from it.

Question: How did you manage to get to the west?

Answer: First of all, this was a miracle of God's mercy. I, as a person without citizenship, being deprived in the Soviet Union of foreign citizenship, fought for more than year to leave the USSR. I wrote three times to Brezhnev something like this: 'I'm not 'yours' and I will never be yours. You are sending 'your own' out of the country and depriving them of Soviet citizenship. With me it is simpler – you don;t have to deprive me of anything. For you I am some kind of foreign body. Give me freedom. I have been deprived of freedom already for 35 years. I'm already an old man and sick. Here, I have no one, but there I have relatives. I have already been in camps twice. Do I have to wait for the third time?'

And I left chiefly for the following reason: There it seemed to us that the people abroad were not understanding the situation of the Catacomb Church in the USSR. The Catacomb Church is the antipodes of the Soviet Church. I would wish to achieve this result: that outside of Russia, at least, there would be accepted some kind of official formulation of a different approach to the official Church on the one hand, and to the Catacomb Church on the other.

I have spoken with some highly-placed representatives of the Church Outside of Russia, but unfortunately I have not obtained a full contact. But I will seek understanding, a creative discussion of sorts, if I am able. I am a small representative of the Catacomb Church, but I am in great debt before her. And I cannot give up these positions – after all, people there are living by them, and for them so many martyrs have shed their blood. And I assure you the Catacomb people are in the millions.